#031 – How to Supercharge Your Influence and Create Change in Your Company (With Catherine Mattiske)

Supercharge Your Influence with Catherine Mattiske

Podcast Summary

In this episode, we discuss how to supercharge your influence and create change in a company regardless of your title or position. My special guest Catherine Mattiske explains why so much communication in organizations fails miserably. Her simple and learnable skills help people craft communication that resonates and inspires action across wider audiences.

Listen to the podcast to find out more.

 

Bonus Resources

Connect with Catherine Mattiske on:

LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinemattiske/

Unlock Your Inner Genius – https://www.innergeniusnow.com/

Intelligent Design – https://www.id9intelligentdesign.com/

  Get in touch with Tim – timborys.com

Resource Articles from Catherine’s Website

Podcast Transcript

Welcome to the Working Well podcast. I’m Tim Borys, CEO of Fresh Wellness group. This show explores the diverse aspects of workplace health and personal performance on the working well podcast. We dive into the foundations of what makes wellness work in workplaces around the. We connect with corporate leaders, executives, and industry experts who are helping make life more awesome at work and home. Join us to learn workplace wellness, best practices, personal performance tips, and access resources to jumpstart your personal and corporate programs.

In this episode, we discuss how to supercharge your influence and create change in a company regardless of your title or position. My special guest Catherine Mattiske explains why so much communication in organizations fails miserably. Her simple and learnable skills help people craft communication that resonates and inspires action in across wider audiences.

Catherine Mattiske – Background

Here’s a bit of background on Catherine. She’s referred to as “the maestro of changing behavior”. She is an internationally recognized training expert and the inventor of the globally acclaimed instructional design process “ID9 Intelligent Design”.

Catherine has transformed 25 years of industry-leading intelligence into practical everyday tools that help you unlock your Inner Genius.

As the founder and CEO of TPC, The Performance Company, based in Sydney, Australia, Catherine leads a global team with offices on 4 Continents.

Catherine great to have you on the show, and we’re going to talk a lot about communication and influence within organizations today. But I wanted to start off and say, of course, it’s great to have you on the show, but communication has changed a lot in the last couple of years. Tell me a bit about what you’re seeing as an expert in the field, and what do you think it’s going to look like moving forward?

How communication has changed in the last couple of years

I think there’s a couple of things that have changed. Firstly, through the pandemic, people kind of whittled back their resilience for long emails and long reports and they said, forget it. I just want, what are the key messages here?

What is going to make me sit up and listen or read this email or whatever it was. So people’s patience for long drawn out stuff was just cut. That’s the first thing. The second thing is that as communicators, people needed to be sharper, and they also needed to make sure that they were talking to the people, to their heart, to their soul, to what was really going to resonate with them as human beings.

And I think that was something new that we all learned from the pandemic was actually, what about me? What about me and all of this? Where do I fit? Where do I hook into that communication? And honestly, there were so much negativity. People were looking for that little piece of light and to say, Oh okay, that’s a positive in my life.

Absolutely. And yes, two years ago at the start of the pandemic, well, more than two years ago now, people were talking about honesty, integrity, clarity of communication. I’d like to think we got well past that by now, and we’re looking at how has the experience of the last couple of years shaped the future of leadership communication, and even just communication in organizations in general.

So I love what you’re saying about that clarity, cutting it down to the essentials, but where does, I want to say the humanity or the personal connection come into that? What do you see changing in that respect?

I think if we look at social media, I looked at what’s changed in social media, even in the last 12 months, the glossy advertising, big budget of big organizations, big corporate has now switched to 180 degrees where it’s just some guy or some girl on their cell phone taking a selfie video just talking about whatever, and they’re not talking about their product, they’re just talking whatever. And if we look at that and say, is that a beacon to help us with corporate communication? You’d have to say yes.

So the big glossy, the big budget, all of that is not necessarily having the cut through because people say it doesn’t feel like you’re talking to me. When it’s someone just talking like you and me and with all of our flaws and our uhms and ahs and our pauses and whatever, because we’re just talking that is having a greater cut through.

Look what’s happening in the world of podcasts. Instead of doing a 30-second ad where people say, “Oh, I don’t think people would watch an ad for 60 seconds or maybe 2 minutes”, but hang on, they’re tuning into a podcast that goes for an hour. What’s that about? It’s about that authenticity of communication and people are latching onto that.

So now, take that social media and podcast story. Now let’s think about corporate. Think about all of those words in corporate that we use in very reputable organizations, but they’re all wound up in a whole lot of corporate space. It just doesn’t resonate because people just say, what are you trying to say?

Tell me what you’re trying to say in real language that you’re talking to your five-year old kid. Talk to me like that because that’s what the shift has happened. If you’re still using a whole lot of jargon and corporate language then just stop it, and just say let’s just talk. I think that’s what’s hitting through now.

Absolutely. And, and not doing it in a condescending way. Like it’s not dumbing it down. It’s just being real and not trying to hide behind the jargon and like, “Oh, I’m special and I’m this professional. It’s like, just get out there and be real. And yes, I agree with you. We’re seeing a lot more of that.

Leadership, Communication and the 12 Inner Genius Archetypes

Can you give me an example of how some clients that you’ve had, not necessarily names or anything like that, and how that has shifted their ability to lead or even specific examples of when people have learned and said, “Oh yes, that person is speaking in this way so I need to communicate with them in a different way.”

Yes. So I was working with a CEO of a medium size organization, and he sends out every month a video newsletter. What that is, is basically his update for the month and he’s great on camera. He’s very appealing in his voice and in his looks. He’s just a great guy. You would think that he was actually capturing his audience pretty well. Well, the thing is that he has a hundred thousand people working for him or in the organization that he leads. So it’s a big company. Okay. And probably in your bathroom, it is products from his pharmaceutical brand. Okay?

So this guy has a big job and a global job and a hundred thousand people. He said to me, “Catherine, this is what I’m doing every month.” And I said, that’s fantastic. So I said, can you show me that video? So he showed me the video and I took a transcript of the video, and then I started to do microsurgery on the communication and took it apart.

So in my inner genius and genius quotient world that I’ve created, there’s 12 archetypes. This CEO is one archetype, your another archetype, I’m a different archetype. So one twelfth of the audience is going to absolutely hook into his message regardless of what he says, okay? Because they’re a lot likely. So what about the other 11?

So I did some microsurgery on this transcript and worked out that he was communicating to about three of those archetypes really well, his own and two that are quite similar. So that’s now a quarter of his population he’s making it easy for. But the other 75,000 people in that 6-minute video, we’re not as hooked in. Now, does that mean to say they weren’t listening? No, not necessarily. Does that mean they didn’t get the message? No, not necessarily. It just meant that it wasn’t as easy for them to resonate, to hook in as it was for the other 25,000. So I said to him, let me fix this.

So in the 6-minute video, I added 105 words to the script. And with that 105 words, I hooked in the other 75,000 people. So the next month came along and he said, “Oh, before I do this, can you just take a look?” So I said, yes, shoot the video and then I’ll do some editing, and then if you need to reshoot it, here it is.

So same thing happened next month. He’s just going with his natural communication style. That’s how we all operate, right? That’s how we’ve operated for our whole lives. So again, I did the same thing and he said, “You’ve hardly changed it.” I said, okay, let’s listen to the feedback. The feedback was off the charts. So all of a sudden people were not only listening to this message, they were actually activating and doing what he was asking them to do. Like, here’s this month’s focus. Here’s where we’re going to be working. Here’s the challenge I’m giving you, all of that stuff. So it absolutely landed with very little effort. So now of course, I’m teaching him how to do it himself.

So for me, it’s easy, right? I’ve got the skill. I’ve been doing it for years and years and years. And I can just talk to people differently, how they learn and how they process information or do what I refer to as balanced communication, which is what I was teaching him to do. Balance it for all 12 archetypes, not just yours. So yes, it’s a skill. No matter how senior you are, how junior you are, how old you are, how young you are, whatever your position in life, it’s a skill.

The Power of Body Language

I guess you take it for granted that some people are just able to connect with a greater number of people and you don’t think about why they do that, but having the knowledge to make those small shifts in the words you use, the nuances, how does tone and body language come into it?

Absolutely. So the tone of body language is kind of like the icing on the cake. So if you think about like a cake with frosting, you get the cake, right? And then your tone and body language will just simply follow through. So your body language is a direct reflection. It’s a mirror to your words that you’re using and if you’re comfortable, your body language will follow through. And if you are connecting with someone, your tone will follow through. So that’s all just kind of like steps three and four. Steps one and two is really getting those words right and building that connection. Once you’ve got that, the rest kind of just follows through

What if you’ve had a cake that is pretty rotten on the inside but it looks fabulous. Yes, that’s where there’s a disconnect. And that’s where people, I call them smugglers because their tone and body language is fabulous but it’s not following the actual words that they’re using. So they’re really being quite manipulative because they’re putting on this gloss but there’s no substance underneath. So that’s where there’s a disconnect. And people see through that, right? People see through that immediately and maybe not even consciously, but unconsciously when there’s something wrong.

I’m working with a supplier right now. In fact, I just had an email from him and what he’s saying in his emails is beautiful. It’s great. What’s actually happening is a whole different thing. So that’s a real smuggler situation. I’m being manipulated like today, and I need to stop that because the connection’s been lost. The trust has been lost. Once that’s done, it’s game over. So I’m dealing with right now one of those situations.

I think almost everyone can relate to that is that you meet someone, and on the surface they seem fine and your spidey senses are just going off and something’s just not right. And yes, so that would really explain it.

Expanding Communication Influence to Create Positive Change

Now, one of the things that we talked about on a previous chat that we had is that the different communication pieces involved, you mentioned video with your client. It comes across an email, it comes across in video. What other aspects, how else do you help clients really, I guess, expand their communication influence?

One of the quickest ways is to have a look at one of their presentations. So I just asked them to send me a PowerPoint slide deck that gives me like an open door to their soul almost, because you can tell so much about how people put together slides. Even if they say, “Oh, I had to use the corporate template.” It’s like people butcher to them all the time, right? Because they want to communicate how they naturally learn and process information because they think that that’s how everybody wants to get it.

So, I work a lot in pharmaceutical. I work a lot in all different industries and I work a lot with subject matter experts who want to tell the world everything from their PhD, everything from their area of expertise, regardless of whether the audience wants to know it or not.

And so, one of the things that I do is I look at their PowerPoint presentations and I go, “Okay, you’re missing all of these different chunks. If you add those chunks in, those pieces in, then you’ll get that much better connection with whoever you’re presenting to, and then your communication will land and you will then be influential.”

So if you look at a presentation, let’s say a PowerPoint presentation or G slides or whatever you’re using, one of the biggest traps is to not do an agenda at the front. And people got, what do I have to do an agenda? Why do I have to do a content list? Well, because they know what’s in it. Well, actually the audience doesn’t. So just do a contents at the front, a summary at the back, that will put you ahead of 50% of people who present right there, just right there.

Tell people what you’re going to tell them. Tell them and tell them what you told them. Who said that, like that was back from the sixties right? And and we’ve forgotten that. So let’s just do that cause that’s good, and let’s call it global and specific learners in learning sites. People need to know the big picture where they’re going, then we need to get into the specifics, and then we need to tell them where they’ve been and where they’ve got to. Okay. So there’s a piece of learning science around that.

The Science of Primacy and Recency

The other thing is there’s a piece of learning science called primacy and recency. And that is people remember best what they hear first and last. So your opening to your zoom call or your opening to your presentation or whatever it is, should be incredible. And as you’re brushing your teeth in the morning, practice your opening. You’ll sound nuts to your family. It doesn’t matter, they love you. Just practice your opening, okay. Because that’s what matters.

And at the end, the primacy and recency, people remember best what they hear first and last. At the end, don’t just end up with thank you, and look, we’re going to send you a, form or we’re going to send the documents or whatever. End with something, a quote, something inspirational, a story. The last thing that you say is so important. And this whole first and last thing, and the global specific thing I would say is missing in probably 90% of presentations that I’m asked to look at. So that’s easy and people can do that today.

Open up the last PowerPoint that you did and check it right now, and add a couple of slides at the beginning, couple of slides at the end, and you’ll go out much more confident. And then in the middle, there’s this middle piece. There’s this middle page that’s around the specifics, and people go, “Oh, but they need to know this, this, this, this, this. Oh, I want to tell them this, this, this, this, this, it’s that.” Stop. Stop, stop. Stop. Just tell people not what you want them to know but what they need to know.

Let’s go back to that idea that I said about Instagram with the corporate rapping versus the selfie. Okay. On the selfie, people are just saying what they need them to know, not everything that they can do, which is the big glossy corporate package, right? So just pair it back.

Simplification Is Key

Simplification is the key. Simplify the message, simplify the graphics, simplify everything, and say if I was the recipient of this, would I get it? Would I actually get it? And not only get it, but what am I asking these people to do?

Because every presentation you’re trying to influence someone, right? You’re trying to influence them to do something, say something, be different, change their behavior. There has to be an action. So it actually doesn’t take very much to actually communicate what is it you want me to do. Just tell them that bit and everything that goes around it, not all this additional fluff. Let’s just get rid of it.

And that’s back to your original question is how do you see communication being different? We’ve got to take out all of that fluff. Nobody cares. And however excited I am to teach you everything today about learning science that I’ve learned over the last 30 years, nobody on this podcast cares unless there happens to be someone who’s right into that.

So to that person, I apologize, call me on LinkedIn and we’ll have that conversation. But for this audience, they don’t care. So it’s not important. It’s about saying, what do they need, not what do I need?.

How to Supercharge Your Influence Through Effective Communication

Well, and this communication goes to all levels of the organization as well. We see so much, as you said, noise coming out of the C-suite. It’s all branded as a big corporate, glossy package in corporate speak. And we go to a conference and we hear someone talking and all these buzz words, and it’s like, at some point, we just need to get down to the basics of what it is we’re trying to convey and say it in a really positive and proactive way that we can create that change.

One of the things that we talked a lot about on this podcast is the relationship between leadership and line level employees. And particularly, how that relates to wellbeing and health, productivity, performance, happiness, allthese positive social psychology metrics, we’ll call it, within an organization that do have hard impacts on the bottom line if they’re not there. And almost to the guests I’ve had on the show, communication is a massive aspect of it.

Whether it’s diversity, equity inclusion, whether it’s adding humor to the workplace, whether it’s philanthropic ventures that the company’s doing, how it’s communicated is critically important to first of all, how people respond and understand it, but also to the message that people get and how it impacts their personal wellbeing. If an employee is understanding the message clearly from leadership and they understand why the company’s doing things that it connects with the values in the organization, that’s going to make them healthier and happier.

And, I think so many leaders in organizations benefit a lot from what you’re saying in terms of just cutting out the crap, we’ll say, and keeping it simple. One of the points you had mentioned was how this impacts, I guess, influence within the organization. One of the words you use is supercharging your influence. So tell me a bit more about how gaining these skills does supercharge your influence regardless of your role within an organization.

When you connect with someone via communication, that can be via an email or in a meeting, a presentation, whatever that communication is, if you form that connection, and somebody feels like you’re talking to them and not just to a massive people, but they feel that connection to you, and that communication is structured in a way that that hook is in, what happens then naturally, a naturally occurring social influence is that they will take action because of that connection.

And that’s the liking principle that Robert Cialdini talked about, patterns of influence. He put the six patterns of influence together. And if you haven’t read that book, read it – the Robert Cialdini work is fabulous. But when we talk about that, it’s coming from a position of a point of view.

Employee Wellness and Communication

Let’s say we’re talking about a corporate wellness program. The point of view from a CEO might be, we need to do that in response to a serious health and wellbeing issue in the workplace. A finance manager might come to that as, seeing it from his or her point of view. As a sustainable way to manage down corporate medical insurance. A learning and development manager might see it as personal or professional development, and a people and culture manager or leader might see it as performance enhancement or stress relief or resilience or reducing time off work.

Now that’s all fine. Everyone’s got their point of view. But what is the benefit to the employee? Let’s take their point of view. So in regard to supercharging your influence, you can stay with your point of view and talk about that all you like. Because yes, managing down medical insurance for a finance person is important, right? But is it talking to someone in customer service, someone in manufacturing, what is the benefit?

So while a C-Suite might be talking about staff retention or major workforce changes or benefits, all these things that matter to them. Sally in customer service says none of that is connecting to me.

So, how do we then supercharge that influence? Well, let’s talk to Sally in Sally’s language. What does Sally want? Sally in customer service or Jerry in manufacturing, wherever these people are, say connect me to content about the wellness program. Make it easy for me. Give me this benefit and I will start to love the company, and my health and wellness is a by-product of that. Okay. Because if I’m doing all of this, that will just happen.

You don’t need to talk to me in customer service about the recent health issue that was in the workplace. You don’t need to talk to me about incidents like that. You don’t need to talk to me about corporate medical insurance. I couldn’t care less how much the company pays for it.

So it’s about getting in the shoes of the person you’re talking to. Once you’re in those shoes, then that influence gets dolled up because people say, “You get me. You understand me. You’re talking to me as me and in my role.”

Now you might need, as a people and culture manager, you might be charged with communicating this out to people. And so then you say, will my message be the same to senior leadership, line management, team leaders, team members? The answer has to be no. If you’re putting out one message, it would have to be the most brilliant Nobel prize, winning message ever.

If you think you’re going to land in a big organization, one message about for example, the corporate health and wellness program, one message to all those people at all those different. You’re dreaming, right? Absolutely dreaming. Bring it back down to the, down to the individuals.

Yes. And that’s the number one challenge that we face in organizations is from a workplace wellness standpoint, when we consult with companies, most companies, particularly large companies, it becomes this plain vanilla message that goes out and it generally gets communicated once, maybe twice, and it’s not catered to the different audiences. The analogy we often use is that marketing, yoga to CrossFitters, if I’m from the fitness side is ridiculous. It’s not going to resonate with them. Same thing too, if you’re talking to a 75 or 80 year old grandmother, who’s never been into a gym and wants to get in shape. And then you start to say, “Hey, we’re going to get you ripped.” And you’re going to be like, ah, screaming in front of them. Like, how is that resonating?

Well, I never go there. Right. So what happens is on the yoga thing, who goes? People who are already into yoga, but they’ve probably got their own yoga class and no one goes. Yes, exactly. And then who goes to the gym? The ripped buff guys who were already there and like, “Oh, I can save some gym membership. I’ll go to the gym at work, but they’re already there. The granny isn’t going because granny’s embarrassed to be around those people, and it’s not for her.

So it is about saying, how can we now say who are all the different people that we’re communicating with and put them into different personas. Okay. We’ve got, granny crappy. That’s terrible. Granny, who’ve never been to anything before and we want to give her something. We’ve got gym junkie. We’ve got yoga. We’ve got this. We’ve got that. Give them names, get to know them, fictitious names. Get to know them. Really work out what their pain points are and how you’re going to get to them. So a lot of marketing mentality comes into it to say, how do I connect with these people? And that’s really hard if you’re the head of HR or you’re the people and culture manager, you go, “Oh, come on. This is not my skillset.”

Communication as a Key Driver of Diversity

It’s a new skill, one of the many. Okay. And so then, it’s really about saying we need to get in their shoes, and it’s the same thing. You mentioned the DEI program. So we’ve now developed a program called Thrive, which is all about communicating diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging.

How do you do that? Because communication is the great diversity key, because we are all different communicators. Okay. Yes. We might have different skin color. Yep. Okay, that’s a thing. But let’s come back to basics. Let’s come back to basics way below the surface of the traditional diversity training courses and say, let’s communicate with everybody in their way, and we don’t have to give up who we are. We need to then honor and respect how they are. And I will flex to them, not them flexing to me.

Now, we’re talking diversity. Now we’re talking inclusion, we’re talking equity and we’re talking belonging. We’re talking about that in every conversation in every meeting, not just saying, oh, we have a diversity initiative in our organization. Whoop De Doo. Okay. That’s very Australian for her case.

I do remember, yes. yes. And well, yes, as you said, a couple of times, putting yourself in someone else’s shoes and really understanding where they’re coming from and their pain points is marketing at the fundamentals of marketing. But people don’t think about that in terms of just general communication. As you said, they’re coming from their viewpoint and here’s what I think, and not necessarily placing it in the context of who you’re communicating with. And the people that do that naturally and do it well, do have greater influence in, in organizations.

Finding Your Inner Genius

I have a question for you on how, obviously, it’s leadership teams that will bring in consultants to train like a leadership group or something like that in there. If you have courses or courses out there that people can take. But from an individual standpoint, if an individual wants to learn more, where, do they go? What do they do to learn some of these?

Step one is to understand your own preferences. So, I developed the inner genius profile to do that. It takes 10 minutes. Okay. You can do it online. It’s easy. So that’s step one. Then from there, actually thinking and reflecting on yourself and how you communicate and how you naturally front up to the world, is a great realization.

The next realization, I’ve got to tell you it’s pretty painful. Because then comes the realization that holy moly, everyone around me, my family, my friends, my work colleagues, my boss, my team members are different to me. That potentially you’re a different archetype to other people around you. And then the pennies start to drop. That person isn’t difficult on my team. They’re not painful. I can’t stand them. All of that. They’re just different to me. That realization stills many people. They go, “Oh, now there’s something in it.” So now they say, how do I show up to that person?

So then it’s about learning how to do two things. One, is how do I balance my communication in my emails and to groups so that I’m hooking everyone in? So now I’m having to learn a skill. I’m going to use different words, different phrases, and I’m going to ask different questions to make sure that everybody is now hooking into my communication. And then from there, the next step would be to say, how do I really power that up one-on-one? How do I spot someone’s archetype? Which is a skill by listening to them, really focusing on them, you can do that. And then, just instantly start talking their language.

So it’s an easy pathway to find out what your archetype is and it’s a huge learning. People can go through their whole life and never actually know their preference for learning, and they wonder why they struggled at school, struggled through university, struggled here, struggle there, when actually it’s all accessible to them if they can just convert that information into the way that they learn, you’ll learn faster. So you take in information quicker.

All of these advantages come just from knowing that piece. Even if you never did anything different with your external communication, just the way you operate gets way more efficient. So it’s really accessible, and that’s what I aim to do is to make it accessible so that people can find that out and then start working on it to become a better version of themselves really.

And that’s, correct me if I’m wrong, the basis of your book, Unlock Your Inner Genius, right? And when people can learn to do that, that allows them to be more influential and impactful in the rest of their life.

Absolutely, and to learn faster. It means that they know whether reading a book, watching a video or listening to a book on Audible is their sweet spot. Now, they might know that already but not know why? And then, when information comes in a different way to them, they struggle because we all have these preferences. And if you can lock into that, I call it your experts zone. Lock into your preferences and you will get into your experts zone of the way you learn, and as soon as you’re there in that spot, everything becomes faster.

So, to give you an example of that; yesterday, I was doing work that was completely opposite to my archetype. So my archetype is called Futurist, and the work that I was doing was the opposite to me, which is an archetype called Scribe. So for me, it’s like paddling up a whitewater river in a boat with a broken panel and there’s just me. It’s really hard for me to go into that place. And I was there for about 2 or 3 hours doing this project and it was hideous for me. I took a break and I thought, I’ve just got to finish this up, just got to finish it, just got to finish it. And so, the way I managed that was I put on my Futurist playlist on Spotify, because we give the people a Spotify playlist to help them getting their experts on. I put that on there. I color coded everything. I changed the work that I was doing to get it so close to my Futurist expert zone. And then, at the end, I made it all black and white again and gave it back to the client. Okay. Because that’s how they wanted it and whatever.

So I converted that work package that I was doing into my way. I’ve got my music on. I’ve got the right songs going. I was happy but it was still not easy. But it would have been way harder if I was not working in that expert zone. If you had to put me into that Scribe where someone else is an expert, not me, they would be loving it. It’s just for me, it’s awful. It’s really a struggle. So if you can find out what your experts zone is, make your work like that, bang! It gets faster, easier, it’s a good deal.

We had a guest on I guess five or six episodes ago around, she’s a music therapist and she wrote a book called the power of a playlist. It’s so fascinating to hear you say that. Because yes, it all comes into that creativity and the passion and getting in your zone.

Yes. And the playlist for the Scribe or the Energizer or the Valedictorian, any of the archetypes, are completely different to my Futurist. Because I invented that I’ve got all the playlists on my Spotify list because my bear’s right. And I think, oh, just listen to the valedictorian or the horologist today. What on earth is this playlist? This is doing nothing for me. So I got back and up again. I got going back to my futurist. That’s where I’m reliable, right? And then someone would tell me, a participant on a course will say, “Oh, I’m a horologist and Catherine, that playlist is amazing!” And I gotokay, great, whatever floats your boat!”

Fantastic. Well, there’s so much more we can talk about, and I’m going to post in the show notes, a link to your book, and the questionnaire you said you can do it online in like 10 minutes. I’ll put a link to that questionnaire in there and a connection with your LinkedIn Yes. I’ll make sure that people have access to that. Before we wrap up though, if people can take away one thing from today or you can give them that one nugget of actionable intel, what would you say that the best thing to walk away with is?

You’ve been living in your body and your brain for however long you’ve been on the planet. And yet we just don’t know the accessibility that we have to it. If how your brain operates, and you don’t have to be a learning scientist, if you just know that piece, the world will start to change for you. The way you operate in your day, the way you see the world will have a greater level of clarity. And when you unlock that, then all sorts of things open up.

So just get to know how your brain works because how your brain works is completely different to how everyone else’s work so just get to know you. You’ve been looking in the mirror, your brain for however long you’ve been on the earth. Just kind of go inside it and go, how does it actually work? And then use that to your advantage. That would be my advice.

Thank you so much, Catherine, and I look forward to reconnecting again soon. As I said, I have to get down to Australia again, so I will make that part of my list now that people are traveling again.

Yes, absolutely. You’re all welcome.

Now that the borders are open back up again.

Exactly. Exactly. We’re letting people in now. So come on over.

Thank you very much. We look forward to chatting soon.

 

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